Drawing The Line

[~Ika Musume~]

Next question: Why can't you get help from a counselor and why are the teachers useless? Don't just say they are, I want reasons.

[Snowy Gilda]

Four, isn't the POINT of the Life and Rants section to vent about things in your life that are making you angry or upset?

And five, does it not occur to you that part of the reason he feels like no one cares about him is because people here - like you - make it very clear that they don't?

Just because you're a mod doesn't give you the right to be a dick, and I know from personal experience that saying things like "you're making a big deal over nothing" and "man up" is the OPPOSITE of helpful.

Yes, it is. But it also is a place to have serious discussions. Which is, as far as I know, what we're having. We're saying what is true, not what people want to hear, even if it may hurt.

Also, this is the internet. I know, I 'shouldn't be the one speaking' considering I'm on... quite a lot. But, I still know the differences between RL and online. If people here are like "lol gilderpy we dun kaer go dai" I won't nearly feel as bad as if, say, my teachers said "You're a failure, please kill yourself." It may be a terrible example, but it still is one. We don't not care about him, but, we're being honest. Do we know everything? Of course we don't. Do we know him IRL? I'm sure most don't. We can't have a 'good view' on him because we simply don't know him, so we have to 'generalize' him, treat him like we would treat pretty much everyone.

He's not being a dick. He's being honest.
And, I, know from personal experience, that it IS helpful. Do you really think it'll help anyone if we just kept comforting them? Sometimes we have to be 'harsh' and truthful. Otherwise they won't get it. If everyone keeps being all like "Oh your life is so sad" and kept 'giving them more' they'd just keep using that instead of actually doing anything about it. To me, it was very helpful, and trust me, I went pretty sadfeels at some point. (God I hate what I did back then :c )

@Gilda: I don't have family, or at the very least I have very little of it. As previously stated my father is somewhere, and I never see my mom, and my great-grandmother is not going to be living with us any more.

There's tons of things we don't know about eachother.
And even though I have to admit that not having a (big) family sucks, it shouldn't mean you deserve 'more' than anyone else.
We should all be treated equally.

Picking one or two of those things and calling me a wimp on it isn't exactly the best way to call somebody out on, look at the bigger picture.

Well, how are some of us supposed to know what the "bigger picture" is?

And trust me, you are a typical teen.
Simply because one or two things are "different" does make you different or special. (Using special here as a way to referring to get treated better than others, or something.)
Not every teenager is 100% exact. They're all different in their own way. For example; Here it's "weird" to have a 'normal' (Mother and father living in one house, being happy. No abuse, no anything.) as opposed to having a 'broken' one (Missing one parent or even both, divorced parents, living with grandparents, etc.)

And yeah.
I probably didn't cover everything, or kinda derped up some translations, but I think you get what I mean.
Again, before you go all ragemode saying I probably live the best life ever and I don't know what I'm talking about, remember this;

There's tons of things we don't know about eachother.

[Wandergirl108]

Yes, it is. But it also is a place to have serious discussions. Which is, as far as I know, what we're having. We're saying what is true, not what people want to hear, even if it may hurt.

Also, this is the internet. I know, I 'shouldn't be the one speaking' considering I'm on... quite a lot. But, I still know the differences between RL and online. If people here are like "lol gilderpy we dun kaer go dai" I won't nearly feel as bad as if, say, my teachers said "You're a failure, please kill yourself." It may be a terrible example, but it still is one. We don't not care about him, but, we're being honest. Do we know everything? Of course we don't. Do we know him IRL? I'm sure most don't. We can't have a 'good view' on him because we simply don't know him, so we have to 'generalize' him, treat him like we would treat pretty much everyone.

He's not being a dick. He's being honest.
And, I, know from personal experience, that it IS helpful. Do you really think it'll help anyone if we just kept comforting them? Sometimes we have to be 'harsh' and truthful. Otherwise they won't get it. If everyone keeps being all like "Oh your life is so sad" and kept 'giving them more' they'd just keep using that instead of actually doing anything about it. To me, it was very helpful, and trust me, I went pretty sadfeels at some point. (God I hate what I did back then :c )

There's tons of things we don't know about eachother.
And even though I have to admit that not having a (big) family sucks, it shouldn't mean you deserve 'more' than anyone else.
We should all be treated equally.


Well, how are some of us supposed to know what the "bigger picture" is?

And trust me, you are a typical teen.
Simply because one or two things are "different" does make you different or special. (Using special here as a way to referring to get treated better than others, or something.)
Not every teenager is 100% exact. They're all different in their own way. For example; Here it's "weird" to have a 'normal' (Mother and father living in one house, being happy. No abuse, no anything.) as opposed to having a 'broken' one (Missing one parent or even both, divorced parents, living with grandparents, etc.)

And yeah.
I probably didn't cover everything, or kinda derped up some translations, but I think you get what I mean.
Again, before you go all ragemode saying I probably live the best life ever and I don't know what I'm talking about, remember this;

Gilda, people being "harsh" on me was NEVER helpful - it just made me angrier and more resentful, and more likely to continue with my "bad" behavior. I used to be Dante in a lot of ways, so I can draw on personal experience - not just with being mad about stuff as a teen, but with the way he perceives the world. Sometimes, setting an example by showing kindness and sympathy is the way to go. I'm not coddling him when I show sympathy, I'm treating him with respect and understanding, which is honestly more than you can say. Some people think that showing sympathy, kindness, and respect is being "soft", and that being "brutally honest" builds character or makes you stronger or helps you straighten yourself out; honestly, that's total bulls. Have you learned nothing from Fluttershy? Kindness is not weakness, and criticism isn't always helpful.

He is NOT a typical teen, he's been through a lot and has to put up with a lot of BS; AND, he's not even ASKING to be treated in a "special" way, he's just asking to be treated FAIRLY - which, again, you are not doing. Also, if you read his previous rants and his user profile note, you'd have a MUCH better idea of what's going on. Don't blame HIM because you don't know things; he's been more than open about all of it here.

I am not going to accuse you of having had "the best life ever", because to be perfectly honest, *I* have, and have always had, the best life ever: I was adopted at birth by two loving parents who never fight with each other, never yell at me, and strive to give me all the love and support they can each and every day; besides which they brought me into a financially stable family, so we've NEVER had to worry about money. I'm not saying I was never punished as a child - I was, quite frequently - I'm saying that I don't assume you're being insensitive because you have no idea what it's like to have a hard life, because by that reasoning, I should care less than anypony else here, and yet I seem to be the only one who DOES care. Also, given that I had such a wonderful life growing up, it should be surprising that I got in trouble so much, but I had some issues (i.e. ADHD, mild Autism, and so on) that I had no control over when I was young, and that I also eventually grew out of - time is the only remedy for the "bad" behavior of some kids, and punishing them only makes it worse.

Now, would everypony who won't say something nice please leave - I know you mean well, but you are not helping.

[Snowy Gilda]

Gilda, people being "harsh" on me was NEVER helpful - it just made me angrier and more resentful, and more likely to continue with my "bad" behavior. I used to be Dante in a lot of ways, so I can draw on personal experience - not just with being mad about stuff as a teen, but with the way he perceives the world. Sometimes, setting an example by showing kindness and sympathy is the way to go. I'm not coddling him when I show sympathy, I'm treating him with respect and understanding, which is honestly more than you can say. Some people think that showing sympathy, kindness, and respect is being "soft", and that being "brutally honest" builds character or makes you stronger or helps you straighten yourself out; honestly, that's total bulls. Have you learned nothing from Fluttershy? Kindness is not weakness, and criticism isn't always helpful.

He is NOT a typical teen, he's been through a lot and has to put up with a lot of BS; AND, he's not even ASKING to be treated in a "special" way, he's just asking to be treated FAIRLY - which, again, you are not doing. Also, if you read his previous rants and his user profile note, you'd have a MUCH better idea of what's going on. Don't blame HIM because you don't know things; he's been more than open about all of it here.

I am not going to accuse you of having had "the best life ever", because to be perfectly honest, *I* have, and have always had, the best life ever: I was adopted at birth by two loving parents who never fight with each other, never yell at me, and strive to give me all the love and support they can each and every day; besides which they brought me into a financially stable family, so we've NEVER had to worry about money. I'm not saying I was never punished as a child - I was, quite frequently - I'm saying that I don't assume you're being insensitive because you have no idea what it's like to have a hard life, because by that reasoning, I should care less than anypony else here, and yet I seem to be the only one who DOES care. Also, given that I had such a wonderful life growing up, it should be surprising that I got in trouble so much, but I had some issues (i.e. ADHD, mild Autism, and so on) that I had no control over when I was young, and that I also eventually grew out of - time is the only remedy for the "bad" behavior of some kids, and punishing them only makes it worse.

Now, would everypony who won't say something nice please leave - I know you mean well, but you are not helping.

First of all; Jesus Christ, calm down.

Secondly; People being harsh towards me made me realize I was doing stuff wrong; They won't say stuff that isn't true, right?
I'm treating him with respect too, but I'm being honest. I think you take my posts as if I'm trying to attack and break down Dante, which I am not. I'm simply being honest, and I'm explaining/telling him what worked for me.
You're not being held a gun against your head and forced to read my posts. Think the things I say is bullshit? Well then so it be. :I

And I, in fact, haven't learned anything from Fluttershy, and to be honest, I'd prefer if we kept pony stuff outside of this. (To me, that kinda makes it look... "unreal", in a way. Not exactly what I'd want in a serious conversation.)

And did you even read what I said? You think Dante is the only teen who ever had bad stuff happen to him? Well you're mighty wrong there. And not wanting to be criticized, and only getting cuddled and agreed with, is being treated specially. Maybe he doesn't flat-out ask for it, but you sure are forcing it onto him this way.
No offense, I think you're pretty cool, but isn't this getting ridiculous?

Now, would everypony who won't say something nice please leave - I know you mean well, but you are not helping.

So if we're not nice to him, we can't say anything?
If we're being truthful and honest to him, we're not helping?
That's kinda... yeah.

Besides, it's not my fault I don't stalk Dante enough to know him that well.
I read the original post, which I assume, has everything in it.
Why would I have to read all his VMs and stalk him all the time?
Just so I can be all like "Oh Dante your life is so bad I'm sorry I'll be nice to you 24/7"?
Because really, that's what you're trying to do here.

I care about Dante, hence why I'm actually typing out all these things.
I got punished for (Basically) asking for attention. I realized it was bad, I changed, and you ain't gonna tell me that made me worse.

Also, again
Jesus Christ
Calm down, and let me explain


Look at those two things.
Look at them, and tell me you're not overreacting.
I'm being honest and you're taking it like some sort of personal attack on him.
I doubt you know the difference between being honest and attacking.
I say things, and explain why I say them.
I don't go flat-out "Dante you're a bitch stop crying"

I lol'd at that post, because seriously.

Now, would everypony who won't say something nice please leave - I know you mean well, but you are not helping.

So you basically said this;
"Be nice to him because if you don't I assume you're a jerk who only speaks shit."
I can be a jerk, and I do quite often speak shit.
But now, I'm not being, or doing, either.
If I wanted to be a jerk and speak shit I'd go to Dystopia.
Here, I'm just being honest.

But that REP
Oh god
Just seriously.
Seriously.
Reread what you said.

I should "Shut my trap" because...
Hell, I can't even end that sentence.
Now tell me missy, what did I say wrong?
Other than being honest, and not overly cuddling him for his sad past, what did I do?
I know I'm the queen of obsession and overprotection, but oh my, you just redefined that.

I obviously know what I'm talking about, because otherwise I wouldn't be talking here.
I know, some things may not sound as nice as they should, but you gotta remember that this is my third language and I don't possess the same amount of vocabulary as you.
But, again, I do know what I'm talking about.

Jesus.
Calm down before you reply.
Because honestly, you'll be the first one to go over the top.

Just, simply, quote every single thing I said that was either a lie, or just completely wrong.
In this post, or in my previous post, I don't care.

Really, please just stop taking every little thing like it's some huge personal attack.
I'm trying to help Dante just ask much as you, but I don't sugarcoat everything.

[Cyrus]

My friends! STOP!


Stop this silliness now! Do you really think that Dante was hoping that his thoughts and feelings would be the gateway to arguments among friends? @Wandergirl108, I understand that you want to look after Dante, that's perfectly fine. But stop going about it the way you are. By getting angry at anyone who says something even remotely negative to him, you are coddling him. It's fine to say nice things to him, and wish that people would do the same, but you have to accept that if they don't have something nice to say, but they believe that they are helping, then they are completely entitled to do so. Furthermore, I saw the VM you sent to Gilda, and you're just getting spiteful, so cool it. @Gilda, you're not in the clear either. You have stated that you don't know the full story of what Dante is going through, and I am glad you can accept that, but this:

Is not helpful to anyone.
Your bickering has gone beyond this thread to angry messages to each other, and @Lyra has even been dragged into it over something that @Bon Bon has said. This is almost definitely NOT what Dante wanted.

Truth is @Dante, while there are many things that have been beyond your control, and that must be frustrating, you still possess some of the blame, due to the way in which you have handled these things. You claim that your teachers are useless, but have failed to provide evidence, and you have been using every external force acting upon you as an excuse for your anger, behavior and your bad grades. You need to accept some of the responsibility, and start working towards changing your situation for the better. I have already offered to assist you with Mathematics work (which has unfortunately come too late) but if I can help you improve your grades in other classes I will be more than willing to help. You need to step back, look at your life and work out what needs to change, and how.

[Wandergirl108]

My friends! STOP!


Stop this silliness now! Do you really think that Dante was hoping that his thoughts and feelings would be the gateway to arguments among friends? @Wandergirl108, I understand that you want to look after Dante, that's perfectly fine. But stop going about it the way you are. By getting angry at anyone who says something even remotely negative to him, you are coddling him. It's fine to say nice things to him, and wish that people would do the same, but you have to accept that if they don't have something nice to say, but they believe that they are helping, then they are completely entitled to do so. Furthermore, I saw the VM you sent to Gilda, and you're just getting spiteful, so cool it. @Gilda, you're not in the clear either. You have stated that you don't know the full story of what Dante is going through, and I am glad you can accept that, but this:


Is not helpful to anyone.
Your bickering has gone beyond this thread to angry messages to each other, and @Lyra has even been dragged into it over something that @Bon Bon has said. This is almost definitely NOT what Dante wanted.

Truth is @Dante, while there are many things that have been beyond your control, and that must be frustrating, you still possess some of the blame, due to the way in which you have handled these things. You claim that your teachers are useless, but have failed to provide evidence, and you have been using every external force acting upon you as an excuse for your anger, behavior and your bad grades. You need to accept some of the responsibility, and start working towards changing your situation for the better. I have already offered to assist you with Mathematics work (which has unfortunately come too late) but if I can help you improve your grades in other classes I will be more than willing to help. You need to step back, look at your life and work out what needs to change, and how.

I am NOT coddling him. Read the thread I just posted, then talk to me.

[Cyrus]

I am NOT coddling him. Read the thread I just posted, then talk to me.

Kindness is not coddling, I agree. BUT by getting aggrivated and attacking everyone who has anything harsh to say to him IS coddling. Being nice to him is fine, and please continue as I am sure he needs some kindness right now, but stop attacking everyone else in the process. It is neither helpful nor constructive, and is NOT the way to get your side of the argument listened to.

[Wandergirl108]

First of all; Jesus Christ, calm down.

Secondly; People being harsh towards me made me realize I was doing stuff wrong; They won't say stuff that isn't true, right?
I'm treating him with respect too, but I'm being honest. I think you take my posts as if I'm trying to attack and break down Dante, which I am not. I'm simply being honest, and I'm explaining/telling him what worked for me.
You're not being held a gun against your head and forced to read my posts. Think the things I say is bullshit? Well then so it be. :I

And I, in fact, haven't learned anything from Fluttershy, and to be honest, I'd prefer if we kept pony stuff outside of this. (To me, that kinda makes it look... "unreal", in a way. Not exactly what I'd want in a serious conversation.)

And did you even read what I said? You think Dante is the only teen who ever had bad stuff happen to him? Well you're mighty wrong there. And not wanting to be criticized, and only getting cuddled and agreed with, is being treated specially. Maybe he doesn't flat-out ask for it, but you sure are forcing it onto him this way.
No offense, I think you're pretty cool, but isn't this getting ridiculous?

So if we're not nice to him, we can't say anything?
If we're being truthful and honest to him, we're not helping?
That's kinda... yeah.

Besides, it's not my fault I don't stalk Dante enough to know him that well.
I read the original post, which I assume, has everything in it.
Why would I have to read all his VMs and stalk him all the time?
Just so I can be all like "Oh Dante your life is so bad I'm sorry I'll be nice to you 24/7"?
Because really, that's what you're trying to do here.

I care about Dante, hence why I'm actually typing out all these things.
I got punished for (Basically) asking for attention. I realized it was bad, I changed, and you ain't gonna tell me that made me worse.

Also, again
Jesus Christ
Calm down, and let me explain


Look at those two things.
Look at them, and tell me you're not overreacting.
I'm being honest and you're taking it like some sort of personal attack on him.
I doubt you know the difference between being honest and attacking.
I say things, and explain why I say them.
I don't go flat-out "Dante you're a bitch stop crying"

I lol'd at that post, because seriously.

So you basically said this;
"Be nice to him because if you don't I assume you're a jerk who only speaks shit."
I can be a jerk, and I do quite often speak shit.
But now, I'm not being, or doing, either.
If I wanted to be a jerk and speak shit I'd go to Dystopia.
Here, I'm just being honest.

But that REP
Oh god
Just seriously.
Seriously.
Reread what you said.

I should "Shut my trap" because...
Hell, I can't even end that sentence.
Now tell me missy, what did I say wrong?
Other than being honest, and not overly cuddling him for his sad past, what did I do?
I know I'm the queen of obsession and overprotection, but oh my, you just redefined that.

I obviously know what I'm talking about, because otherwise I wouldn't be talking here.
I know, some things may not sound as nice as they should, but you gotta remember that this is my third language and I don't possess the same amount of vocabulary as you.
But, again, I do know what I'm talking about.

Jesus.
Calm down before you reply.
Because honestly, you'll be the first one to go over the top.

Just, simply, quote every single thing I said that was either a lie, or just completely wrong.
In this post, or in my previous post, I don't care.

Really, please just stop taking every little thing like it's some huge personal attack.
I'm trying to help Dante just ask much as you, but I don't sugarcoat everything.

One, read the thread I just posted. Two, I may be taking this personally because I used to be a lot like him and I understand what he's going through.

[Reese]

I'm completely going to ignore all shit previous to this post and actually respond to @Dante here.

I'm sorry that things didn't work out for you.
Crying in class really isn't good, and keeping your emotions in like that will only make them worse.
You should find something to release them with. Do you do any kind of sports?
When I was a teenager, I had a lot of these teenagy-feelings too, and I got a punching bag.
It might seem like a lame suggestion, but trust me, it really helped me.

I don't really have other advice to give you, other than that it might help you to talk about things every once in a while.
And by that I mean actually talk, no random swearing or cussing, but actually discussing what's making you feel bad and figure out a way to deal with these things.
It might be wise to seek your advice elsewhere every now and then, because if you keep getting the same advice, it won't help you at all.
Perhaps you don't even need advice, but you just need to let it all out. Just give yourself that, okay?
All the guys on here might seem a bit insensitive and rude but I promise you that deep inside they're all good people, and they all care.
If you ever really want to talk with someone, you have my skype and if you need me, I'll be there.

[Applejack]

Now, would everypony who won't say something nice please leave - I know you mean well, but you are not helping.

It really should say something when everyone else has essentially commented the same "un-nice" things, Wandergirl. In particular, that perhaps you are both looking at this the wrong way. For the better part of the last week both you and Dante have been outspoken and more about these hardships you've been having. I know, because my "What's new?" tab has displayed them to me and everyone else on this site. :/ Hell, you have both blatantly ranted about both mods and users alike in VERY public VMs.

I have been a part of this community for almost a year now. I've seen our users and mods help fellow members find help with problems concerning almost everything under the sun. Suicide, abusive parents, harmful relationships and more. You name it. Point is, people have always have spoken in the best interest of others. The generosity I've seen on this site, in this section, is one of the biggest reasons I remain a mod and supporter of this community.

I am not saying the pain/frustration both you and Dante are feeling is wrong, what I am saying is to understand our 'full picture' of what we have been seeing this last week. Word gets around FAST in this day and age with our advancements of technology. We understand you are upset, but you can only be in grief for so long. There comes a point that you have to decide whether you continue fretting over the things you can't change, or take actions to change the things you can. That is really what most of the people here are trying to say.

We don't want to see either of you holding yourself in woes of your lives anymore. You need to take a stand and accept the advice so many people are trying to tell you: stop beating yourself up, hating on others, and move on. How do you expect to take on the harder challenges of life like paying bills, taking care of a family and home, or let alone the day-to-day stress that a job may bring? Things will only get harder from here on out. I apologize if that is tough to hear, but it is true.

A close friend of mine is currently dealing with the threat of being kicked out of college, the possibility that their Grandparents won't soon even remember their name, their mother essentially paying all the bills for their family, the chance their significant other won't even have a place to live anymore AND (to top it all off) their health has also been on the decline. Yet, despite all that hell, they still manages to keep their wits about them and move ahead for a brighter tomorrow. They realize they can't let life's speed bumps slow them down.

This is what everyone here is trying to say.

I'm completely going to ignore all shit previous to this post and actually respond to @Dante here.

I'm sorry that things didn't work out for you.
Crying in class really isn't good, and keeping your emotions in like that will only make them worse.
You should find something to release them with. Do you do any kind of sports?
When I was a teenager, I had a lot of these teenagy-feelings too, and I got a punching bag.
It might seem like a lame suggestion, but trust me, it really helped me.

I don't really have other advice to give you, other than that it might help you to talk about things every once in a while.
And by that I mean actually talk, no random swearing or cussing, but actually discussing what's making you feel bad and figure out a way to deal with these things.
It might be wise to seek your advice elsewhere every now and then, because if you keep getting the same advice, it won't help you at all.
Perhaps you don't even need advice, but you just need to let it all out. Just give yourself that, okay?
All the guys on here might seem a bit insensitive and rude but I promise you that deep inside they're all good people, and they all care.
If you ever really want to talk with someone, you have my skype and if you need me, I'll be there.

Case-in-point, seek out methods like these, @Dante. You will be surprised how much they can help.